BACK STORY With DANA LEWIS

CRISIS IN DEMOCRACY/AMERICA

November 18, 2021 Dana Lewis Season 4 Episode 13
BACK STORY With DANA LEWIS
CRISIS IN DEMOCRACY/AMERICA
BACK STORY With DANA LEWIS +
Become a supporter of the show!
Starting at $3/month
Support
Show Notes Transcript

This week a House Republican law maker was censured for releasing a video animation of a murder of a fellow  lawmaker, and promoting violence against other Democrats including the U.S. President.  A defiant (R)Paul Gosar reacted by reposting the offensive video.  

A couple of days earlierTrump advisor Steve Bannon was brought before the courts on contempt charges, for refusing to testify at a House investigation into the attack on the Capitol on Jan 6th.  Outside the court Bannon called it the "Biden regime" and told people to "stand by", the same phrase Fmr. President Trump used, in talking to White Supremacists.

Calls for violence, and relentless Republican attacks on the legitimacy of the election, puts America  on a trajectory for disaster.   On Back Story Host Dana Lewis talks to Univ. of Virginia Prof. and political commentator Larry Sabato, who calls it "the most extraordinary and disturbing period" of his life in looking at politics in America.



Support the show
Speaker 1:

We're going to go on the offense. We're tired of playing defense. We're going to go on the offense on this and standby. I'm never going to back down and they, they, they took on the wrong guy. This guys,

Speaker 2:

Hi everyone. And welcome to another edition of backstory. I'm Dana Lewis on this edition America's democracy in peril. It is and make no mistake. The threat is not going away because well, Donald Trump has not gone away. Trump who according to a new book called betrayal, still falsely claims the election was stolen. We all know that, but he still fondly celebrates the attack on the Capitol. On January the sixth, he doesn't condemn the desire by protesters to hang his vice president. Mike Pence, there is information that during the riot pens hidden a garage for hours refusing to leave Washington revelations. Since January 6th also indicate that there was a lot of organization of the unrest from the white house, people who were close to Trump thought he was out of his mind, and that cabinet should have stepped in and remove Trump from office. How deep did the conspiracy in the white house go to organize an insurrection and create a constitutional crisis is the subject of a house investigation in a newly revealed memo, former white house, chief of staff, Mark Meadows detailed how to overturn the election to vice president Mike Pence's office. The memo was written by Trump campaign, attorney Jenna Ellis Meadows and Trump advisor. Steve Bannon had been subpoenaed to appear at a house investigative committee. Bannon, as you may know, was arrested on contempt charges and he vowed to topple the Biden regime as he called it and to make the charges against him, a misdemeanor from hell for the president, whatever that means Bannon and others preach hatred to a large audience, an audience which may have become larger since January the sixth, an audience that speaks often the violence and taking up arms. The 2022 midterms are coming fast. President Biden has not made any of this go away. Trump may run again in 2024, sorry to sound so pessimistic, but we are hurdling towards a potential disaster in America. And that's what I want to talk to this week's guest about what's going on in America, uh, because it always looks very different from when you're across the Atlantic. Uh, but maybe not in this case is professor Larry Sabato from the university of Virginia Heiler REO data very well, sir, you know, you're a, well-known, uh, political analyst. You've written a couple of books. I watch you regularly on American television networks. Is it so different from how we see it sitting here in London? Or is it alarming when you're in America? What's taking place?

Speaker 3:

Well, I did live in Britain for a number of years. So I have had the experience of looking at America, uh, from the UK. I would say this is the most extraordinary, disturbing period of my life, uh, looking at American politics. And, uh, it probably looks bad from any angle and from any distance. And it ought to, uh, we're right on the edge, potentially of losing the essence of our Republic, which is free and fair election supported by, uh, the people of the United States, regardless of whether their candidate wins. So yes, things look bad. I think they look bad from any angle in any country and they certainly look bad when you're right here in the middle of it,

Speaker 2:

All these investigations going into what took place at the Capitol, um, in January the sixth and yesterday, you know, you, you had this incredible moment of, of Steve Bannon being hauled before the courts for, uh, essentially in contempt of the house, refusing to testify as to what he knew. And he apparently knew a lot because he was saying all hell would break loose, you know, days in advance. And then he stood outside the courthouse with his lawyer. And essentially in my view threatened the precedent, the us president yesterday, calling Biden of regime and telling who to stand by.

Speaker 3:

Yes, well, I'm not a mental health professional. Sometimes I wish I were, because I think I do a better job analyzing some of the characters that American politics and Steve Bannon is clearly one of them. Uh, it was an outrageous performance, but then he specializes in gorilla theater. Uh, actually he and I are exactly the same age and we grew up in Virginia and we attended, uh, parallel universities, uh, just a hundred miles apart. So I understand him a bit, uh, but he clearly is carrying on, uh, for Donald Trump and he's carrying the water of Donald Trump still has still is, will be, uh, into the future. How far I don't know, but what he said and did is very disturbing because it's already extremely clear that he was involved in the planning of January 6th. He was aware of just about everything that was happening. He clearly knew that Trump personally, as well as some of his henchmen around him, uh, were plotting to destroy our Republic. That's all, that's the only way you can put it because he was going to hold onto the presidency for a term to which he had not been elected. This was the closest we ever come to a coup de Tom, at least since Lincoln was because of course they were trying to decapitate the American government and went after several other officials on that terrible evening in April, 1865. But this, this was the closest we've come since the end of the civil war, potentially the starting another civil war. So, you know, we're not talking tiddlywinks here. The stakes are incredibly high and people, many people abroad in here don't seem to get it. This is not a clown show though. I will tell you, Steve Bannon is a dangerous clown.

Speaker 2:

I mean, there are a lot of people that you might describe, you know, as clowns. Uh, but I mean, these people can call people to the street, um, and have them assault the Capitol building and had they gotten hold of some of the lawmakers that may have been worse than that. You have warned about the, that the media needs to call it what it was that it was a coup d'etat, uh, a failed coop.

Speaker 3:

That's precisely right now, I think the word insurrection fits as well or a domestic terror incident. I think that fits as well. But to me, a coup d'etat is the best description and it's understood worldwide. Everyone knows what a could they tie us and it can succeed or fail. And sometimes a successful coup d'etat is preceded by a failed. Could they talk happens quite frequently.

Speaker 2:

Jonathan Karl's new book betrayal has just come out and in it, he says that, uh, Steve Minutian and Mike Pompeo on January the sixth, discuss the plan to remove Trump from office, uh, w you know, while presumably the insurrection was going on, or it had just ended, um, pretty incredible revelations.

Speaker 3:

Uh, John is a, is a good friend. I've told his daughter he's been here many times, and he was nice enough to give me a copy of the book sometime ago. So I'm, well-prepared

Speaker 2:

He says he has rock solid sources on it.

Speaker 3:

Oh, I believe in no, we, we discussed it. And in some detail he does not that he revealed his sources to me, but it's absolutely true. All of these things that he has revealed. Absolutely true and deeply, deeply disturbing. I can't imagine anybody could read John's book betrayal and not be very concerned about the future of American democracy. What I think is also important though, data is to note that minutia than Palm PEO and this one, and that one claiming now to have done X, Y, and Z. Well, first of all, maybe they did. And maybe they didn't, maybe it's a cover story because increasingly they see the way history is going to write this and they're on the wrong side, but even more important than that is the fact that they failed. They failed this incredibly dangerous man was in place for four years. And sure enough is the front runner to be the Republican nominee again in 2024. And then you

Speaker 2:

Have Liz Cheney, you know, one of the few Republicans that have stood up and said, they're not going to support Donald Trump. And she's essentially been thrown out of her own party this week.

Speaker 3:

Yes. Well, it's laughable to Dick Cheney's daughter is no longer a Republican, according to the Wyoming Republican caucus steering committee, because they don't like her position on Donald Trump. If ever there was evidence of the cult light nature of Donald Trump's support. This is it.

Speaker 2:

So what do you think they're really what's at stake? I mean, if they're able to lift the rug, um, you know, uh, uh, uh, Bannon's lawyer was on CNN today and he was going on endlessly about this whole executive privilege point of view. And that Bannon is not breaking the law. Abandon doesn't have any secrets to hide, but he has to honor an executive privilege requests from president Trump. That a lot of people say that Trump actually has an officially made anyway, but is that smoke and mirrors the whole executive privilege coverage?

Speaker 3:

Of course it is. He's not president. He may think he is many of his supporters. I don't even know how to explain this to a domestic audience, much less a foreign audience, but many of Trump's supporters think he is still president. And so he had, if he were president, he would have the power of executive privilege to exclude documents relating to his presidency. He is no longer president it's up to the incumbent president to make those decisions. And it is true that Joe Biden has made. What I think is fair to say is an extraordinary, uh, position, extraordinary decision to allow some of these documents to be transferred to Congress. But is this not an extraordinary situation?

Speaker 2:

Has president Biden mishandled the environment? I mean, a lot of people sort of feel that Biden strategy Larry has been, you know, coming to power, just try to bring normalcy back to Washington, get on with passing the pandemic, you know, uh, bail out bills, try to ignore some of the hostile, toxic rhetoric that takes place in the Republican party, but it see making a mistake. You know, do you think history will judge them harshly for not doing more, uh, to put out this, this fire that, that may well burn through the midterms and into 2024 in a more ferocious way?

Speaker 3:

I believe he's caught on. I agree with you that, that, uh, he entered the presidency with some would call it naive. I would say experienced view that the two parties would come and reason together as Linda Johnson used to put it, uh, even given their great disagreements, they would come and reason together and come to some reasonable compromise on infrastructure, which they did though, without the kind of support Republicans used to give infrastructure, particularly in the house of representatives. Uh, we'll see about the build back, better social spending habits

Speaker 2:

I did, but in pretty small numbers in some of those Republicans that supported the biller being called traders.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, no, that's what I mean. He, he is governing that is Joe Biden. He's governing based on the way that he was able to govern as a Senator beginning in 1973, when the parties had many differences, but they could reasonably compromise. That's gone. The air has gone. And I do think Biden's getting it. He really thought he was going to be able to paper over these differences or smooth over them. It's impossible.

Speaker 2:

What's the alternative,

Speaker 3:

The alternate,

Speaker 2:

What can he do? And he's trying, and to do it while his popularity is sinking over Afghanistan and wireless popularity is sinking over fears of inflation, not fears of inflation, but real inflation.

Speaker 3:

What he's got to do is to move forward on his own agenda and where there is some possibility of working with some Republicans, he should do it, but he shouldn't pursue that exclusively. He's got to understand that for much of his term, maybe all the rest of it, his accomplishments will be based on one party's support his own party, and he had better pursue that, or he won't be able to accomplish anything else.

Speaker 2:

What do you predict is going to happen in the midterms? And do you think that Trump is going to run in 2024

Speaker 3:

In the midterm elections, given American tradition, uh, and particularly when there are problems in the incumbent presidential administration, which they are, and you mentioned inflation and COVID is continuing and gas prices are sky high. And, you know, we can go through the whole litany if you want, but given all that while he's got a year to solve some of them, if the problems are still there, then I would expect Republicans to end up winning. Certainly the house of representatives, probably by a significant margin, uh, and quite possibly, maybe even probably winning the Senate to at which point, uh, Biden's presidency is purely executive. Nothing is going to happen in Congress that he wants to happen

Speaker 2:

Positions Trump, if he decides he wants to run in which way, obviously with, with a very good upper hand,

Speaker 3:

Uh, Trump will run if he's healthy enough, remember, you know, the clock ticks even on people like Trump. Uh, and second, uh, this, I think Trump's decision will be paced on one thing above all Kenny really win. Is he really going to win? Because the excuse of having a stolen election, isn't going to work again, except with his hardcore cult. Nobody else is going to believe it. So he doesn't want to go out a loser. He went out a loser, but he claims he wasn't and enough people believe him. So that history may, uh, may be a little to him than I think it should. I think it was a great outlaw, uh, but if he thinks he can win and he's healthy enough to do it, he will try to do it. And it may be our last election.

Speaker 2:

It may be your last election indeed. And that's really the fear, isn't it? Because if he runs and whether he wins or doesn't win, he is going to claim victory. Uh, and can the, can the nation take that again?

Speaker 3:

Uh, it could, if we didn't have the Republican party where it is, but I think we would drift into violence. I think there would be violence from even the beginning of the campaign and certainly intensifying around the election day and then all the way through our creaky constitutional process designed in 1794, a 21st century society. So I'm very, very concerned. I think everybody in my field is everything that could happen wrong is happening wrong. And the potential is for American democracy to sink. And we're going to have to work very, very hard to keep that from happening, at least until Trump gets off the stage one way or the other

Speaker 2:

Couple of quick questions, you have been called out by the GOP. Haven't you who there are reports that they approach the university of Virginia and said, look, uh, you know, essentially put a muzzle on Larry, a sabotage,

Speaker 3:

Oh, that's absolutely true. I, I wear their sport like a badge of honor. I hope it happens again.

Speaker 2:

That's incredible that they would do that to a teaching institution. Is it not?

Speaker 3:

Nothing's incredible for this party, nothing. They have become anti small D democratic in a thousand ways. And you know, what's funny Dana, their big push is against cancel culture, but they want to cancel anybody who doesn't go along with their script, by the way, it's completely failed. No one here would pay the slightest attention to them. They didn't, and they won't in the future.

Speaker 2:

The last question I promise, what is it like, do you sit in big lecture halls now with students still? What, what is the dialogue like with younger people who are coming up through a system that is murky and full of this information they're online? Um, it must be very confusing for, for young people. Young Americans,

Speaker 3:

It's somewhat confusing. Obviously the students I see in the students that most academics see at fine universities are well-informed and they understand what is happening and they understand who's causing the problems overwhelmingly. So you have to read

Speaker 2:

And they, or is it because of the university of Virginia, perhaps you would have more, more, uh, more sort of liberal student body, or do you think, do you feel generally the younger people are kind of switched on to seeing through the disinformation, which is not easy the way?

Speaker 3:

No. Is it not easy to do, but yes, they're, they're highly intelligent. They understand social media, they know how to do research and to separate the fact from fiction, but also remember the great divide now in this country is between the college and graduate school educated, and those who have not had the good fortune to go to college and college versus non-college explains more of the vote now than just about anything, including race in some contexts,

Speaker 2:

Professor Larry Sabato Larry. Great to talk to you and, uh, thanks so much for your views. You know, I hope we can do

Speaker 3:

This again. I enjoyed our conversation. Thank you, Dan.

Speaker 2:

And that's our backstory for this week on American democracy. I don't want to say something flippant or trite about politics in the U S I think it's scary. What's happening and may still happen. American democracy is far from being out of danger. In fact, January 6th may have just been the beginning of the bat crazy movement. Thanks for listening to backstory. Please subscribe to our podcast and sheriff I'm Dana Lewis, and I'll talk to you against

Speaker 4:

[inaudible].