On this Back Story Host Dana Lewis talks to Project Dynamo organizer Bryan Stern. This is a volunteer/charity mission to rescue those left behind in Afghanistan.
And, Belarus is trying to use migrants as a weapon against Europe say Western leaders, and Russian President Putin may be behind it all. I talk to the former Foreign Minister of Lithuania on a deepening crisis.
On this Back Story Host Dana Lewis talks to Project Dynamo organizer Bryan Stern. This is a volunteer/charity mission to rescue those left behind in Afghanistan.
And, Belarus is trying to use migrants as a weapon against Europe say Western leaders, and Russian President Putin may be behind it all. I talk to the former Foreign Minister of Lithuania on a deepening crisis.
This is not a bilateral issue of Poland Latvia this one year and the Belarus. This is a challenge to the whole of the European union. And this is not a migration crisis. This is the attempt of an authoritarian regime to try to destabilize its democratic neighbors.
Speaker 2:Hi everyone. And welcome to another edition of backstory. I'm Dana Lewis, that was Ursula vendor lay in the European commission head after meeting president Biden in Washington. What she talking about Bellaruse and refugees being used as weapons against Europe by Belarusian dictator, Alexander Lucas. Shenko Belarus is a tiny country on the edge of Europe, on the border with Russia. It's dictator Alexander Lucas. Shenko lost an election last year, but refuse to step down. Instead he started locking up and brutalizing thousands of people. Then he ordered the hijacking of a Ryan air flight crossing his airspace, but bound between two NATO countries. He did it to arrested journals. Lucas Kinko's political opposition has had the fleet in neighboring Poland or Lithuania to save themselves from torture and prison. Luca Shanka was created a pariah state on the edge of Europe, the EU and the U S took out sanctions against him. And now, now Luca Shenko is luring migrants who want to enter Europe to Bellaruse and then pushing them into Poland and Lithuania to destabilize those nations and to pay Europe back for sanctions. And he appears to be doing all this with the support of Russian president Vladimir Putin, who wants to bring Belarus back under Russian control. Luca Shanko will support the so-called union with Russia because he has nowhere to turn now. But Russia, on this backstory, we talked to the ambassador for Lithuania, who along with Poland says no doubt. Russia has a hand in all this, and Luca Shenko must be stopped by a United Europe. But first on backstory, there are tens of thousands of people trapped in Afghanistan. You already know that on August 15th, the Taliban took control of Kabul. And since then we know very little about how many Afghans who worked with us or NATO forces have been killed or jailed, but there are all kinds of horror stories, emerging payback for cooperating with us troops over the last 20 years under the Taliban, that usually means death. And some of those trapped weren't Afghan soldiers or police, but a lot of them are just people who hold British or us or Canadian or all kinds of foreign passports, and they can't get out unless someone helps them. And that's where project dynamo comes in. All right, let's talk about Afghanistan. Now. It has been months since headline news on your televisions every day where you saw, uh, American forces, they had the Kabul airport surrounded by the Taliban, taking people out of Afghanistan, trying to evacuate people who had worked with Americans who were in harm's way, the stories moved to the back pages, but I'll tell you what it is become more dire. Uh, the situation is a very big crisis for so many Afghans who cannot get out of Afghanistan, who are trapped. Some of them being hunted by the Taliban because of their previous relationship with us forces or NATO forces. And there's a guy named Brian stern who joins me now, Brian, I believe in your you're in New York right now.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Dana, thanks for having me. I really appreciate it. I'm in, I'm in New York right now. We're getting ready to launch tomorrow probably. Uh, we're we're having some challenges this morning, but uh,
Speaker 2:I have to introduce you a little bit better than a there's a guy I know called Brian stern because you are running a project called dynamo. Uh, and you are one of the few organizations that have actually been able to get some of these people out of Afghanistan, uh, with their kids, with their families. Tell me how you're doing it and tell me how critical the situation is right now.
Speaker 3:Uh, I'll answer the question in reverse, uh, uh, how critical is the situation it's dire? Uh, we're seeing all kinds of indications from inside the country inside Afghanistan, uh, both geopolitically, economically, culturally, and even with things like whether the, the winter in Afghanistan is a very, very, very real thing that impacts the entire country. So from a ticking clock perspective, there's multiple facets of the situation, all of which are indicating bad, not good, right?
Speaker 2:So all Afghans will face a horrible winter, all Afghans, correct, a famine conditions in parts of the country, they are going hungry. The, the economy has collapsed, but the people you are helping in particular are, I assume, are people who have had relationships with us forces in the best, because you're a veteran and you have worked with some of these people,
Speaker 3:Correct? So the, uh, project dynamo project dynamo was predicated on the idea of don't be a spectator, right? So things went bad and we wanted to get close to the problem. The people that we're helping are anyone in any one that we can and how are we helping them in any way that we can sometimes it's by airplanes. Sometimes that's by border crossing. Uh, sometimes that's in a car, sometimes it's in the foot, if there was, uh, by, by foot, if there was, if Afghanistan wasn't landlocked, that'd be using rowboats too. So we don't, uh, we tend to focus on the aviation piece because I can move a significant, a large amount of in one shot. But the reality
Speaker 2:Is, will you just talk to me about
Speaker 3:Who will you give me,
Speaker 2:Give me some examples of what kinds of people you're in touch with that you've helped in that you're getting out or need to get out.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so we have a database swift project, dynamo.org is our database. That's where you can donate. We are donor funded, a little plug. Um, uh, that's also where you re that's also where you register that. So if you're an Afghan, you're, you're an Afghan American, you're an Afghan Canadian Euro, whatever you are in country, inside Afghanistan, that's where you go and register and upload your documents. The people that we're focusing on tend to be, uh, um, wrong to say any one demographic, but we have to, we have to shop into trenches if you will. So American citizens, Canadian citizens, British citizens are on my next flight. I also have green card holders, also known as LPRs lawful permanent residents of Canada, of England, of America. I also have vulnerable populations such as journalists. Uh, we have a manifest of a number of journalists who were a team. They were Afghan TV journalists who did nothing but slammed the Taliban every single day from a media and journalism perspective, trying to demonstrate freedom of speech and the power of the press and all those things. They're their faces are known by everybody they're Google-able. And if you Google them, it comes up as anti Taliban stuff. They too are in country. We have all kinds of groups that are vulnerable. We don't, we don't.
Speaker 2:What about policemen? What about soldiers? What about special forces, Afghan special forces, all of those
Speaker 3:W we, we, we try, we try to help them. Also. We try and help everybody. If I have a way to get somebody out and they need to be out, we try and pursue it. Uh, what I'll say is, is that what we've seen is, is that there's a lot of people who are just as vulnerable, if not more vulnerable, who, who were not kinetic, meaning, uh, Afghan judges, Afghan lawyers, Afghan journalists, people who are not soldiers, per se, who were in their own right against the Taliban by, within, through our influence our policy in 20 years of war. So yes, we care and have moved many, many, many, many Afghan national security officials, high level people, uh, Afghan intelligence officers, all kinds of folks. Um, but our I'll say that if I had to pick an Afghan journalist or an Afghan commando, the Afghan commando in many cases can take care of himself. Maybe his family is a problem, but if you're a female Afghan journalist who is all over TV and you're trapped in Afghanistan, and you're surrounded by the Taliban, you don't have a lot of help. And you're certainly don't have the train.
Speaker 2:Tell me how do you get them to the border? Do they get there themselves? How do you get these people out now?
Speaker 3:So, so the genius of dying Mo uh, this is onto groups out there and all the, in all these groups are doing the best that they can with what they can in a very, very, very, very hard environment. There's no funding. Money is dried up. Donor money is dried up. So we're all working on shoestring budgets. Uh, the answer is, as we move anyone any way that we can, the genius of dynamo, unlike a lot of other groups is we call it the mouse trap. Meaning once we start the process with you, you're an Afghan Canadian and yours in downtown Kabul, and you don't want to be in Kabul anymore because that's bad. You want to end up in Canada, you enter into our process and from safe houses to buses, to COVID tests, to measles shots, to buses, to where you need to go to flights, to where you need to go to wherever it is. We don't really stop. We don't really stop until you get to where you need to be. So
Speaker 2:Mind-boggling and tremendously challenging.
Speaker 3:Uh, it is challenging. It is challenging, but we've really cracked the code on a lot of these things and not withstanding funding. We could move thousands of people a week if I had money. So the, the w we've cracked the code on a lot of these things. It's a dynamic situation, meaning via land crossing, as an example today, that Uzbek border is closed. Who knows if it was open last week, who knows what tomorrow will bring. So th you know, it's dynamic and it's fluid. We're able to shift and lift and spar and Perry and roll with the punches in such a way that once we kind of start with somebody, we know that we can finish via airplane is the best way, because we can, we can move a large and a really large amount of people in one sitting. Our last flight was 113 us persons, every single one of them
Speaker 2:And helped. And where did you help them to, because they're not guaranteed to the U S or Canada, right?
Speaker 3:Correct. So, uh, we don't know how many people we've helped. We don't give, we don't. I know how many people I have left. We know it's a couple thousand, um, there's a whole bunch that we can definitely verify, and it's easy to track those, but there's many that we've touched where, where our fingerprints are on them, that, that it was simple assistance. It wasn't necessarily a rescue. I certainly counts. And we certainly had a hand in saving their lives and all that other good stuff. But, but you know what? Our passion is not making phone calls. Our passion is getting on the plane, meeting the people and executing the operation.
Speaker 2:How many people have you actually flown out? And where did you fly them to?
Speaker 3:Uh, our last big flight, uh, last big flight, 113 people. And they landed in Chicago
Speaker 2:And will Chicago T will the us take them?
Speaker 3:The Americans, they just went home.
Speaker 2:So those are the easy ones. Those are American passport holders. Right. But what about, what about the guy who, uh, was a, a fixer translator with us, special forces?
Speaker 3:Uh, a lot of those guys, a lot of those guys go to third-party countries. The, what people call Lily peds, which is go to a place until your visa gets approved. Uh, Rwanda, Georgia, uh, Baney, uh, the, uh, uh, Abu Dhabi. Um, we're looking at some options in Columbia, in Latin America, Columbia being one of them, Panama being another Brazil, being another, uh, we haven't executed those yet, but we have people all over. Greece has taken people. Ireland has taken people. Uh, Cyprus Cyprus took a few. So country countries are taking people. Uh, they are, it's wrong to say that the world queue it is incorrect to say that the world community is rejecting this totality, is that accurate? But the reality is, is there's 35 million people that live in Afghanistan and 34 million want to live somewhere else. So, um, it's a very dire situation. It really is. And, um, people, people, I think a lot of people were very critical, especially if the American government, but of the ally of NATO, of, you know, well, 20 years. And, you know, you left it worse than you found it made no progress. I reject all that. That's just not true. I spent a lot of time there, but a lot of time there, and there was a time where people wanted to stay in Afghanistan 20 years later, no, with the Taliban people, people there, there was a time where people enjoy Taliban controlled Afghanistan today. That's clearly not the case. So, so without doing any hard math at the very least, the influence piece worked out just fine militarily and politically, and all those other things, it's kind of complicated, but, but every Afghan woman that I've ever met talks about school. Every Afghan child that I've met talks about school.
Speaker 2:Your point is that these are permanent positive changes that have happened in the country. And that's a legacy.
Speaker 3:Absolutely, absolutely, absolutely.
Speaker 2:Two questions. The U S government, uh, NATO, allied governments, have they just kind of given up when they shouldn't have, and they should still be helping people.
Speaker 3:Um, number one, they are still helping people get out, uh, that they are, it is just extremely hard. It is very complicated. The state department, uh, British government Canadian governments are all, all have massive taskforces, which with a lot of human capital and real capital dedicated towards the problem set. I work with the state constantly, almost daily. And I will say that it is a hard situation, but it is not for lack of effort at all. Uh, it is just very difficult and governments work at the speed of government. Sometimes that's not, that's not the state department's fault. That's just the way the world turns.
Speaker 2:You able to maybe cut a few corners and get it done quicker.
Speaker 3:Uh we're we're we don't cut it. So number one, dynamo doesn't break any laws. We're not smuggling people.
Speaker 2:The slide that I did, I just mean maybe you're a bit lighter and faster on your feet.
Speaker 3:Like any, like anything else, right. If you're a private organization, it's all about the getting, you know, it's not about the bureaucracy piece. You know, I, I hate spreadsheets. I hate memos. I hate PowerPoint. I hate all these things. And in government, those are requirements. Those are necessities. There's a there's oversight, there's approval, there's tax dollars. And I'm not saying that's wrong. I think that's, uh, I appreciate that there's oversight as to how my tax dollars are spent. I appreciate that. Right. Uh, I, you know, we're donor funded. I make sure to track every single penny that we spend, because I assume that one day a donor is going to say, where did my money go? And I want to be able to explain to them. So as a,
Speaker 2:You're able, from the point of contact of somebody in trouble, you're able to get them up.
Speaker 3:Exactly. Right. You know, it, we see this in the military, you know, who's more of a lethal force, a battalion of infantry or a platoon of special forces guys, depending on the day, those special forces guys might be, even though smaller, more combat effective, just based on the way that they operate in are organized and man trained and equipped. That doesn't mean that they're better or worse. They're just, it's a function of, of ability.
Speaker 2:Brian. I know you got to go there. Last question. How can people help you? I mean, I don't think you're talking about huge amounts of money, but rechartering airplanes is not small amount of money either.
Speaker 3:Yeah. So a project, dynamo.org, we take every kind of funding that there is. We have Venmo, we do wire transfers. If you have money, we want your money. We need your money. Uh, the planes don't fly themselves. The landing clearances are expensive food and all those safe houses and buses and COVID shots or co COVID tests are a hundred, 150 bucks a shot, a test in downtown Kabul. Uh, I, we are the proud owner of the only COVID PCR rapid test in the country. And it's a 150 bucks to do the, to do the thing. Uh, MMR shots are$117, a hundred and$107 a piece. So, uh, everyone who gets on when you come into the process, everyone gets a COVID test and everyone gets a measles shot without doing any hard math. You know, it's a couple hundred bucks per person. So we need help financially in a very real way, tactically, uh, I need, I need people with money to give, to, to be kind and help with this. Uh, and I, and or people who have big, big aircraft that don't mind flying into Afghanistan. I'll take either one. There's a both. Okay. Uh, but we're focusing on our next manifest is British, uh, American Americans, Canadian and British either citizens, children, uh, green card holders. And we have a bunch of vulnerable people also that we're doing across border operation with. Uh, we hope to move 300 and then in the next two weeks,
Speaker 2:Brian stern, thank you so much. Good to talk to you and good
Speaker 3:Luck. Thanks, Dana. I really appreciate it. Thanks for having me.
Speaker 2:All right. Lena's Lincoln vicious is a Lithuanian diplomat. He is an ambassador at large. He was a former foreign minister and former minister of defense. Hi, sir.
Speaker 4:Good
Speaker 2:To talk to you again. I mean, what is happening on the Belarusian poor Polish border right now? How would you characterize it?
Speaker 4:No, it's characterized already by, uh, various institutions as hybrid attack, which is really definitely, this is true, but I would, I would add that now it's also kind of humanitarian, uh, situation because of very clear reasons. You know, these people which were collected in Minsk as tourists invited by the regime, then converted to migrants, brought to the border and they were attempts to cross the border illegally in various places first. And Jania later in Poland. And, uh, these people were sort of to say this group was in lash every, every day, every week. And they went to many and I can assume that dictator taking the stupid decision to get rid of them and to simply push pushing them to the border. And now we have thousands of them now that my Polish border with no way back, no way, what words and the conditions, which are definitely very difficult, because you probably know that as minus temperature. Uh, and, uh, these people are not, you're not used to that to say the least. And there are also some women and also some minors. Uh, so this is also in addition to what we were describing before. It's common, it's really disaster, and it should be taken quite quickly by international organizations by all international organizations in order to make sure that this is not acceptable.
Speaker 2:Lena, Mr. Ambassador. I mean, when you say they were collected, you're saying that this was not a natural migration, uh, as we've seen in other parts of Europe, from north Africa and Syria and elsewhere, you're saying that president Luka Shenko did what
Speaker 4:Yeah, indeed I have had in mind that that was sufficient mate, by the way, recall this recent history you property remember of the hijacking of Ryanair plane. And as the system sanctions introduced against the Russian company, he made a statement, public statement that he will flux. I will vote by migrants and drugs, European union. And this process started almost immediately. I would say,
Speaker 2:I want to interrupt. So, so because let's quote it directly on may the 26th, we used to stop the drugs and migrants. Now you'll have to catch them yourselves. And then on June 22nd, he went even further, you launched a hybrid war versus us and demand. We protect you like before question mark, what was he saying?
Speaker 4:Indeed, indeed. And also it was the reason to make some kind of trade off, I would say, which is also usual for this regime. It had to do with the political prisoners. If you remember, when they released was again a kind of motivation maybe to live sanctions. And now they were also Hills made by him. And also by Russia, if you remember that, pay some money and they will try to manage this, this, this crisis. So this is,
Speaker 2:It was said again by the Russian foreign minister, LeBron yesterday this week, he said, well, maybe there should be some kind of financial arrangement. I mean, is there, are they really seeking some money for migrants?
Speaker 4:Oh, they seeking to leave sanctions. You know, because it looks that these sanctions, although they are not sufficient, one can say, you know, could be more efficient, but anyway, they are working, they are working, they're painful and they have to do something. And by the way, also he himself, if we are following the events, he feels not quite confident in the situation. And he also feels that he's probably will be not be needed for Kremlin, even Latanya focus on people. And the, he is, he is action sometimes really not predictable. And that's also one more reason why you even don't know what to expect.
Speaker 2:The Polish prime minister has accused president Putin of Russia, of orchestrating this. What would you say about Putin and Russia in their role in this, since Lucas Schenkel lost an election, he's been long enough its own people jailing his opposition. There are widespread claims of torture. As you mentioned, he hijacked the Ryan air flight that was between two NATO countries, uh, and arrested a journalist sanctions were taken out what is Russia's rule.
Speaker 4:Unfortunately we can see lately. It's not, it's not, it's not yesterday, by the way, when the restaurant instigating crisis and launching some kind of crisis. And through this crisis, they can manage the situation, not as a peace dealer, not as a manager, but as a, as a kind of stakeholder. And this is not exception. This is not exceptional at all. Given the fact that this is also known, even not for the experts that this country disappearing as, as we can speak the factor. The fact of disappearing has independent state. It took so long implementation of the so-called to sit union agreements. It last more than 20 years, it was very difficult to, from time to time to, to, to realize, to implement, implement. But now when this leader is not legitimate, first of all, either he's really well horrible, he's weak and they're using whatever they can to, to absorb that country fully. And to make sure that this is different kinds of integrated parts, maybe the factor, maybe not the Europe. And so with open sequences, including like a training field for some methods, so whatever they are doing, I doubt that it's done without coordination Tremblant is simply not possible, but because whatever they are doing is done in coordination after consultation sometimes. And if you're following meetings of two to two leaders, uh, they are also taking place around these events around this hijacking fact,
Speaker 2:Lucas, shouldn't go just met with president of Bruton a couple of days.
Speaker 4:Exactly. So, and they talked on phone recently about situational. The board also discussed this. So to say that this is done without coordination or without knowledge, or even maybe without guidance would be really too much. So we definitely should look at Russia as a source of all this, what is happening. And all of the reason of all of that without responsibility, usually, you know, Russia usually enjoys a role of backseat driver in whatever crisis they instigated themselves and distancing from what is happening with Crimea Donbass, Syria, PP migration crisis. This is really becoming a habit and it shouldn't be taken for simple reasons by international community when too much, too many examples, too many precedents to make sure that this is definitely something like a scam and cannot be taken like this.
Speaker 2:What is the point are they trying to, I understand Lucas Kinko's point, he's trying to put pressure on Europe to withdraw sanctions. What does president Putin doing or is this just his normal course of trying to destabilize the EU? Whenever he can.
Speaker 4:The tries to destabilize also trying to divide also testing resilience. This is happening from the, I would say a war in south focuses since 2008. So it's nothing new. Shouldn't surprise anyone and he's testing how far he can go, how deep he can go without reaction without proper reaction. If this price is agreeable, he's continued to do the same. So I mentioned already the south caucuses, an occupation of 20% of Georgian territory. We know all of us that nothing happened after that basically, and no changes even then. And now later we have an extension of Crimea. We have now a aggression against Donbass and all these methods are tested on the, the, if, if it's possible are going on, you know, simply, and really you're right, destabilize the European union, make it weaker. Also testing resilience ability to react to the threats because the only arguments they can use, again, unfortunately, this is not positive approach. This is kind of creation conflict and through the conflict becoming important, becoming so to say the reasonable and the, and this is, this is how it works.
Speaker 2:Why is Lithuania declared an emergency Lithuanian parliament declared a state of emergency at the country's border with Belarus on Tuesday? Um, it allows border guards to use mental coercion, proportional physical violence, to prevent migrants from entering Lithuania, uh, bans all traveled within five kilometers of the Belarus border unless allowed by border guards.
Speaker 4:Yeah, since we watching the situation and what's happening now in neighborhoods, this neighborhood better clothes, I would say it's 40 kilometers. You know, something 30 kilometers, what this happening. And definitely don't all these crowds could be redirected very easily to other direction, which was the case I already did last night. So we have all those up to 300 attempts to cross the border, which was three times more than not normally, which is not normal at all. But nevertheless, this big increase and there were also reports that some crowds were redirected again to our border. So we have to take measures. And that's, that's important to note, you should, you should know, probably the length of the border is much, much longer, 670 kilometers. It's really much more than with our neighbors in Poland. You know, this board is definitely not well-protected everywhere. Not everywhere. We have technical measures. We need to a lot of personnel to do that. So it's not easy. And, uh, this, uh, emergency status will help us to context. So to say more resources to date, take this challenge appropriately.
Speaker 2:So this an article five situation for NATO, Lithuania, Poland are both NATO members. People see this as, as hybrid warfare, characterizing it as an attack by certainly by Lucas Shanko and by extension possibly by Russia. Is it an article five situation where members of the EU and members of NATO have to support Lithuania and Poland on anybody else, uh, who are having migrants pushed up their border like that?
Speaker 4:I would say more discussed in the context of article four, but just consultations, not yet article five, but even article four was launched maybe five times. If I remember correctly and the history it's not very often happening and this is, it has to do with the military threat. Basically. It's not yet the case, whatever is happening. It's hybrid. It's massive. It's really confused and confusion and a big, big problem, but we should keep in the arsenal. All these leverages, including article four consultations with your wives. I shouldn't say it's not happening. Hi, everything was dispatched to Lithuania sometime ago. And they looked at the situation quite here from the in-depth analyzing. So how our lives are observing. So to say, not to say that no, no context or no information shared with them. This is not true, but it's not yet time. Maybe to look at that as a military. Uh, fortunately it's not yet military threats, but who knows provocations could be whatever
Speaker 2:Inside Lithuania view this. I mean, do, are they, are they, uh, w with fear worrying that this situation is starting to escalate along the Polish border, along the Lithuanian border, um, and that the, the end game really is to destabilize NATO countries.
Speaker 4:No people of course, are not relaxed, especially with the board areas, watching television, they are reading papers and following what is happening in social media. And those reports they're receiving, um, definitely cannot satisfy anyone. So people are concerned. I shouldn't say this Hispanic, no, it's my farm. Not yet to the case, but we, uh, we have village vigilant. We are looking at the stations very seriously, and I believe that people sharing the most sharing all these measurements, which were taken by the government so far. And we also try to reach this cross party agreement, which shouldn't be a discrepant system, the views of political partners. That's also very important. So it's discussed from time to time, the parliament and this decision, which was reached in the parliament in producing the stimulations to start. This was also done after consultations across all spectrum of political forces. So this is exactly what we feel are people lately, people everywhere quite concerned, two main challenges for them. This is migration. Also, let's not forget pandemics. So this time is not easy. And that's also the case why people are really quite concerned.
Speaker 2:Is there a link to the buildup of Russian forces on the Ukrainian border and what president Putin is doing there as well?
Speaker 4:I'm
Speaker 2:Sorry. Russian forces on the Ukrainian border. Is there a, let me ask you again, is there a link between the buildup of Russian forces now on the Ukrainian border while this is taking place along the Polish border?
Speaker 4:Well, the link is when we looking at the roots for scaffolding. So you have the same source of, of, of this, see these events, uh, as an, as a director's of the performance. So this is the linkage. I couldn't link directly what is happening, but usually when Bryce is appearing, sometimes they are coordinated to draw some attention, maybe from one crisis to another. So it's linked because the same source, as I said, because Russia is a player everywhere, unfortunately, not in positive way. So this is very direct linkage.
Speaker 2:How does this end with more sanctions against
Speaker 4:Not only local Shanghai would not forget Russia, as I said, this is the same, same picture, but also with regard to local Shankar, as you probably know this with packages in preparation of sanctions, and we have to speed up the process, that's for sure. And to make sure that they will be targeted, tangible, not only individual sanctions, but also economic segments is very important. And to, you know, to sanction all these companies and our latest proposals, also the sanctioned airport, maybe the airport of Minsk and has becoming a Harbor Harbor, all these events and those companies, which are corporate cooperating with this also should take a note that notice that this is something happening and they are deliberately or not what they are part of this chain of, of, uh, of this crime basically. So the sanctions should be really more and more spirit, more efficient, more targeted. And I would add not only against the, a lot of shows, but also Russia, shouldn't see a pure impunity in the context of these events.
Speaker 2:Lena's link of issue is always great to talk to you, sir, ambassador at large from Lithuania. Thank you so
Speaker 4:Much.
Speaker 2:And that's our backstory on Belarus and the use of migrants as weapons and on project dynamo. If you want to help Afghans Brian Stearns project dynamo was a great place to start. I'm Dana Lewis, thanks for listening to backstory. And I'll talk to you again soon.
Speaker 5:[inaudible].